More posts on the destructive nature of AA from former AA members

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This was taken from the SOS Discussion Board


I'm new to SOS. It was time to leave AA, so here I am. I still have some nostalgic feelings for the religion(s) of my childhood. However, I'm

a very different person than I was in those days. I don't miss the God Squad.

Nor will I miss the Thought Police. I love to feel the shiver that goes up and down my spine when I have good arguments with people who

also honor and respect rationality. Ahhhhhhhh, free again, with the wind blowing through my neurons and my programming turned off!

I'm here because everything matters less now than the simple right to be myself, to express my opinions authentically instead of in terms of

someone else's doctrine.

Actually, I'm here because someone pointed out the immorality of sending vulnerable addicts to a "program" with alleged therapeutic value

--- when only 5% (at most) of AA folk remain sober --- and 60% of all persons who get sober do so on their own! In fact, the chemically

addicted are worse off in AA or in any 12-step program than with no treatment at all!

Until that time, I had not thought beyond my own selfish purposes for being in AA. I knew I was safe and insulated from losing all self-

confidence and the ability to think for myself. Fine! However, what was happening to those around me who were accepting the damaging

beliefs that they were *DISEASED* and *POWERLESS* ?????

Well, the bottom line was that a scant few ever maintained sobriety in a place where "swearing off" was a dirty word --- yet "relapsing"

was condoned & evoked sympathy.

How can a person *LIVE* without researching these not-so-minor factors that should be weighed in decisions regarding what type of

program, if any, one should choose for oneself? I dunno. I have no excuse. The political power of AA in the US is such that it boggles the

mind. In the recovery program sense, it *IS* the system. I'm not the first to have been lulled into a zombie like state by the belief that I was

virtually alone in questioning 12-step programs.

Some folk have suggested that perhaps AA will eventually change for the better. Why? It has no incentive to do so. Groups that wield

political and financial power in our nation will continue to do what they do --- shape the individual to serve the group's interests --- to

maintain the group's power --- instead of acting in the interests of the individual.

The words CULT and COLLECTIVISM and CORPORATE EXPLOITATION come to mind. Those are not kind words, I know. Well,

when I have seen the dignity and self-confidence and reasoning ability of chemically addicted persons *ripped off* --- I seethe with rage.

What are these people doing!!!??? Why do we allow the courts and hospitals and psychologists and halfway houses and prisons and youth

groups to use our tax money to FORCE this ineffectual and weakening and irrational program on vulnerable human beings?

What is the answer? My answer is the same for those human beings as it is for myself. I would *EMPOWER THEM*.

I would allow them to be themselves; not prisoners required to submit to brainwashing and forced to repeat the cult's dogma. I would free

 their minds from a religion that is not of their choice (Yes, the Supreme Court has over & over again ruled that AA IS RELIGIOUS! So

much for the misleading statement that AA is merely spiritual.)

I would free their minds from the hatred and contempt for reason that is so pervasive in AA.

I would, if I could, tell them OPENLY that their own minds are fine, healthy, and more than capable of forming their own plans for how to

abstain from substances --- and that such a plan will work for a lifetime with only their own will power behind it.

Thank you all --- for bringing your thoughtful minds to this board so that I may trade thoughts with you.

An SOS Member.



One Man's Analysis of Alcoholics


An Online Book

by Secret Agent Orange

The worst of madmen is a saint run mad.

-- Pope

In the Step groups, it is often heard that "More will be revealed." For the "revelations" here, perhaps the best place to start is
In the Beginning . . .

More Revealed

In the Step groups, it is often heard that "More will be revealed." For the "revelations" here, perhaps the best place to start is
In the Beginning . . .

Free books and book excerpts including the complete The Real AA and "Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult or Cure?" free on line for personal use.

The Anti-AA Book That Saved My Butt -- After reading Ken Ragge's "The Real AA -- Behind The Myth of 12 Step Recovery", I simply could not go back to meetings. Here's an on-line version of the text of this fantastic book.   -- Apple


REOPENED 25th December 2007

"When people ask me if I am against AA/NA - I respond - I am if being 'for' the 'alcoholic' or 'addict' affords them the right to question, which AA/NA does not allow"

J a m e s G

The intent of this site is to publicly address some very serious issues which concern the well known program of Alcoholics Anonymous. At first glance, this popular abstinence program appears to save countless lives, but upon closer examination we find that a notable amount of individuals suffer further as a result of AA thought reform. Many see AA as their last hope -- when they fail to find answers in the program which really work, some give up, drink fatally and die. (We believe that in some of these cases, the indoctrinated belief of powerlesness is acting as a lethal self-fulfilling prophecy) These deaths are then attributed to the "disease" of alcoholism and the lost member is seen as not having "worked the program". We do not agree with this viewpoint! The contributors to this site have found that AA has a dark side which is rarely discussed in meetings and is discussed only in a limited capacity in print. This is an attempt to voice this much needed alternate point of view. Additionally, we hope to provide an open forum for discussion where questioning and critiquing is encouraged, so that those individuals who do choose AA can be better consumers. Lastly, for those creative thinkers who are spinning their wheels in a 12 step program, we hope to provide long-overdue information which encourages growth outside of AA.

Meditation of the Month -- October
I tried for years to live according to everyone else's morality.
I tried to live like everyone else, to be like everyone else.
I said the right things even when I felt and thought quite differently.
And the result is a catastrophe.
-Albert Camus


Danger Thin Ice

Addiction Treatment and Support can sometimes make things worse.  
With No Support or Treatment at all a person can sometimes be better off, Depending on the Treatment and Support that's offered.

This has got to change.

This web site is one small step in making that change happen sooner.
We can no longer live in the Dark Age of Treatment and Support without lifting a Voice to make a change happen.

Twelve Step Free Zone 

"12-Step-Free Zone: the place to be out of step"

What 12-Step-Free Is

12SF is a discussion group for those who reject 12-step ideology or are seriously questioning it. Members are those who have left step groups, who are still attending but are uncomfortable and considering leaving, who have loved ones caught up in steppism, who are professionals in the fields of addiction, law enforcement, etc., or who simply have an interest in discussing and debunking 12-steppism. We talk about how steppism has harmed people (or how it hinders growth), and we debunk the superstitious and unscientific beliefs of the 12-step movement. We also talk about political issues related to "addiction" and "recovery", including court cases which have declared 12-steppism to be a religion.


You will see this abbreviation used frequently by listmembers. It is a generic term for all of the hundreds of Step groups, AA, NA, OA, GA, Al-Anon, Gam-Anon, ACoA, etc.


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12-Step Coercion Watch is a discussion list for those concerned about the violations of religious liberty that are occurring throughout the world where people are being coerced into the 12-Step programs of Alcoholics Anonymous and its many offshoots such as Narcotics Anonymous. In the United States alone more than a million people each year are forced into these programs by courts, licensing boards, and government employers.

Two federal circuit courts (Second and Seventh Circuits) and two state supreme courts (Tennessee and New York) have ruled this practice to be in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, yet the coercion continues throughout the country and also in other countries.

The discussions will focus on planning and initiating organizational efforts to end 12-Step coercion worldwide. The primary focus will be, but not be limited to, legal challenges in the courts. This may include, but not be limited to, advising those now being coerced that this coercion is unconstitutional, encouraging them to file suit, and finding legal assistance for them.

We encourage lawyers and laypersons alike to participate in this group and hope that a Supreme Court decision will eventually lead to the end of 12-step coercion in the U.S. We also would like to hear from those from other countries where coercion exists so together we can work to end 12-step coercion worldwide once and for all.

Nursesforrecoveryfreedom · Nurses for Recovery Freedom

Welcome to the Nurses for Recovery Freedom site. This site was created as an informational site for any nurse mandated to the 12 step culture for licensure preservation. The site is to keep us informed of legal issues regarding our constitutional rights in regards to recovery treatment. For those with chemical dependency issues, there are few alternatives and mandated programs, have been found to be illegal in certain courts. Although this can be an extremely confusing, overwhelming and intimidating time, much can be gained through education and understanding of the systems that control our profession. We do have choices, but must voice our opposition to the abuse of our consitutional rights, regardless of our profession or situation.

Escape From The Cult of AA

Title: Escape_From_The_Cult_of_A_A (EFTCoaa)


EFTCoaa is a group committed to deprogramming from AA's cult doctrines. It is not our business nor is it our mission to determine for our members how they should handle alcohol in their personal lives. We tend to be more supportive of those who have maintained abstinence, as most who come here do not wish to drink. However they DO wish to be free of AA Stepism. What IS our mission is to help individuals, who have been harmed by AA and see it as a cult, to deprogram themselves from it's destructive thinking. The wounds that cults leave behind are deep and lasting, and it is our hope that EFTCoaa will be a place to demystify and de-sanctify 12 step rhetoric that stays in the thought processes long after a person has left the AA cult. We promote personal empowerment rather than powerlessness; freethinking rather than rigid non-thinking obedience; choice rather than fear and terrorizing; and freedom to live one's life as one sees fit. There are 2 things we do not tolerate and will ban members for: proselytizing for AA and abusive personal attacks on members. This place is to be a safe haven for many minds with many ideas. The whole point is to regain our individuality. We are not professionals. We encourage those who need medical attention to seek it, and maintain links to other groups for support of abstinence such as Rational Recovery, S.O.S., SMART etc.

1. Do you feel that A.A. is NOT the only road to Sobriety?
2. Do you take issue with being chided for questioning the “Program”?
3. Are you troubled by AA's Religious foundation?
4. Have you been greatly harmed by AA?
5. Do you ever wonder if AA is a cult?
6. Do you question being told that you cannot be angry?
7. Have you been forced to admit powerlessness over your life in a way that empowers other members while it diminishes you?

If you answered yes to two or more of these questions, EFTCoaa just might be a YAHOO group for you.



This site is for people who were desperately seeking recovery from addiction, or was coerced by the "powers that be" to join what was thought to be a group that would help them find freedom from  addiction, and instead found themselves caught up in a cult that they could not easily walk away from without repercussions. 
Many people view 12-step organizations as harmless support groups designed to help people overcome various addictions and regain their lives, however, for many of us this view was far from the reality of what 12-step groups really are! Many of us have awakened after years of brainwashing to find that we had not regained our lives, but had instead lost our individuality and the freedom to think for ourselves. Many of us have lost much more, some have lost their families and suffer emotionally from their experiences inside these "harmless support groups," others have committed suicide because they could not live up to the expectations of sponsors or other group members. This site is dedicated to those who cannot tell their stories. It is our hope that this discussion list will provide some insight into how cults operate,  how you can discern whether or not you are in a recovery cult, and how others have found their freedom from the step religion and reclaimed their lives.


aabugsusbecause · aa bugs us because


aabugsusbecause · aa bugs us because

AA bugs us for many legitimate reasons!
(We're not to be confused with that flaming 12-stepper group called "aabugsmebecause," which is a misnomer since nothing about AA really bugs them.)
Feel free to rant about AA here - steppers, enter at your own risk!

without_aa ·

sober _without_ alcoholics_anonymus


Yes, you can stay sober without AA. We are people who have been burned by AA and we discuss things we believe are wrong within AA. If you are convinced of the AA doctrine that you cannot be sober without AA, then this is probably not a group you should join. Our desire is to help you see what AA really is and we are not counselors or trained professionals. This list is not meant to replace professional therapy.



A Gallery of Visual Aids for the Sane

The Step-Think Ticker
Your Brain on AA
©2003 Partnership for a Twelve Step-Free America®

As Bill Sees It

Alcoholics Anonymous: Of Course It's a Cult!
by Jack Trimpey

The Twelve Step Cult
by Mitch Bailey

The Semantics of the Twelve Step Neurosis: Surrender, Disease, Denial and other dysfunctional 12-step pathways to personal dis-empowerment and cult dependency by Clifton W. Kirton (Dr.X-ray)

Jeffrey A. Schaler, Ph.D.

Jeffrey A. Schaler, Ph.D.

Psychological characteristics of cult membership are discussed. The cult nature of Alcoholics Anonymous and disease model of addiction ideology is examined. Patterns of response by individuals who believe strongly in the disease model of addiction when their ideology is challenged are analyzed.

The Twelve Step Cult
by Mitch Bailey
We live in a society seemingly overwhelmed with addictions to various chemicals. An habitual user of drugs/alcohol is usually encouraged to seek "treatment" within the format of a program offering 12 Steps to sober living. Most heralded is Alcoholics Anonymous (AA).

We live in a society seemingly overwhelmed with addictions to various chemicals. An habitual user of drugs/alcohol is usually encouraged to seek "treatment" within the format of a program offering 12 Steps to sober living. Most heralded is Alcoholics Anonymous (AA).

Anonymity Anonymous

How to Become a Cult Leader

Help and support for people with support group dependency problems (or stepper interferance problems)

Counseling for Ex-Members

Overcoming Your Alcohol, Drug & Recovery Habits: An Empowering Alternative to AA and 12-Step Treatment

Drink advice service confronts sex abuse

AA acts on rising reports of attacks by volunteers

Gerard Seenan
Wednesday July 5, 2000

Vulnerable alcoholics seeking help for their addiction are being subjected to sexual and other abuse at the hands of long-serving volunteers from the world's largest alcohol support group.

A Message to the Media

Cited: 47 Duke L. J. 785
[*pg 785]


   A. The Religious Aspects of Alcoholics Anonymous
   B. Alcoholics Anonymous and the Constitutional Definition of Religion
   C. Establishment Clause Tests

   A. Warner v. Orange County Department of Probation
   B. O'Connor v. California
   C. Incidental Benefits to AA in the Probation Context

   A. Constitutional Rights of Inmates
   B. Griffin v. Coughlin
   C. Kerr v. Farrey
   D. Jones v. Smid
   E. Alcoholics Anonymous, Turner, and the Establishment Clause

   A. The Establishment Clause and Coercion
   B. The Public and Government Funding of Religiously-Oriented Counseling

   A. Right-Privilege Distinction
   B. The Doctrine of Unconstitutional Conditions





Hi, I am Michael,
For fifty years I have been in contact with spiritual movements or read up on them. I have been interested particularly in their influence on its members, who I have followed now for a considerable number of years all over the world. I have been struck by the fact that developments within such groups always seem to follow a similar pattern. When people unite for a special purpose a field of tension seems to arise based on unleashed subconscious drives.
Please allow me to share with you some of my observations.





Approximate Reading Time:
30 Minutes

Note: This article is primarily about the Witnesses, but many points are applicable when you discuss emotionally charged matters with people other than Witnesses



Forced AA in the US Military is Unconstitutional

aaa comix

Alcoholics Anonymous

God's Sword of Truth - The Word

Alcoholics Anonymous

By The Holy Spirit's Disciple, Raymond Laginess


We need more links 

Duane Metevia
Duaine Metevia

"Danger Thin Ice"

Real Life Experiences in Dangers Waters.


Some may find this information disturbing or think of it as bashing, a group but "The Truth Is The Truth" and we have every right to share our Life Experiences because it might help the next person, by presenting information that is normally suppressed.

Why is this information suppressed and why is necessary to set up a web site to bring information that should be freely given to us from our free press and free media?

Where is our Free Press??

Where is our Free Media??

The #1 web site you should visit "Agent Orange" --

Danger Thin Ice

Why do people bash Alcoholics Anonymous?

True Stories of Struggles

AA articles

AA Cult Watch or Warning Groups & Web Sites

Ray Smith thoughts on Agnostics in AA


What is your opinion or /impression of Alcoholics Anonymous?


John McCready's Anti-Coercion 12 Steps

AA isn't the last stop on the train

AA Guidelines for Cooperating with Court, D.W.I. and Similar Programs

 AA Links 

12 Steps to Destruction: Codependency/Recovery Heresies

Should I Bash Alcoholics Anonymous 

Information From Other Web Sites

More Revealed web books

Important Court Cases - More Revealed web