Hi All:

Duaine M here:

AA did me harm and I got and stayed sober not because of AA but in spite of it.

For those of you who have been helped by AA.

At what cost was this help and can you see that the cost is far to high for many of us.

For many of us, we have moved past our past misuse of alcohol an drugs and found a new life without going back to alcohol/drugs.

We have done this by living life. Not being trapped in a Cult for the rest of our lives.

 I wish you well and hope you understand that many have been hurt by the religious cult aa. I hope to bring a balance.

Bringing to light their stories might help the group fix it's self.

I feel this web page doesn’t do harm but instead helps and heals.

This is for the those of you out there who have been hurt by people who are suppose to be there to help.



One Man's Analysis of Alcoholics


An Online Book

by Secret Agent Orange

The Orange Papers are sometimes hard to find - They move around with some people who care keeping them alive - Don't give

up if a link doesn't work - Keep looking -They are will worth reading.




The worst of madmen is a saint run mad.

-- Pope

In the Step groups, it is often heard that "More will be revealed." For the "revelations" here, perhaps the best place to start is
In the Beginning . . .

More Revealed

In the Step groups, it is often heard that "More will be revealed." For the "revelations" here, perhaps the best place to start is
In the Beginning . . .

Free books and book excerpts including the complete The Real AA and "Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult or Cure?" free on line for personal use.

The Anti-AA Book That Saved My Butt -- After reading Ken Ragge's "The Real AA -- Behind The Myth of 12 Step Recovery", I simply could not go back to meetings. Here's an on-line version of the text of this fantastic book.   -- Apple

More Revealed

Online Books

mr cover gif

More Revealed: A Critical Analysis of Alcoholics Anonymous and the Twelve Steps 
aka The Real AA: Behind the Myth of Twelve Step Recovery (See Sharp edition title) 
by Ken Ragge 
Read the book

real aa cover gif

Alice Miller says, 
"[More Revealed] will be a shock to many people because it reveals facts they would rather not know. But the shock, I have no doubt, will be a healthy one." 
-- Alice Miller is famous as author of The Drama of the Gifted Child, For Your Own Good: The Hidden Roots of Cruelty in Childrearing and the Roots of Violence, and Breaking Down the Wall of Silence among other books. 

Stanton Peele says, 
"It's great. [T]he best overall analysis I've seen of the roots, nature, consequences, and failures of AA. ...summary of relevant research is excellent and to the point. ... remarkably well written." 
-- social psychologist Stanton Peele is author of The Meaning of Addiction and The Diseasing of America. 

G. Alan Marlatt says, 
"interesting and informing reading ... I admire your courage to bring up the issues so clearly." 
-- G. Alan Marlatt, Ph.D., Professor and Director Addictive Behaviors Research Center, University of Washington 

Jack Trimpey says, 
"a landmark in America's return to sanity in addiction care. ... the kind of book many would like to censor ...a reading responsibility for people in the helping professions." 
-- Jack Trimpey, Executive Director of Rational Recovery Self-Help Network (now in 500 cities) in The Journal of Rational Recovery 

And the public says, 

"I have always sensed there was something wrong with twelve step programs. Since everyone else seemed to think they were great, I assumed I didn't understand them completely or perhaps I was in 'denial.' ... More Revealed has helped me understand the cultism and dependence inherent in these programs. If this information had been available to my mother 25 years ago, she might still be alive." 
-- Martha White 

"More Revealed is making its way gradually around our office and everyone thinks the book is about them, and they have this funny little way of getting ever so slightly possessive about it, as though they alone truly understood the secrets held within. So Ken, hordes of people think you've written a book just for them, and so you have." 
-- Jeanine B., Florida reader 

>"I hated this book. I used to think I was an alcoholic and there was nothing I could do about it except drink. Now I have to take responsibility." 
-- John B. 

-- Carol King, M.P.H., Yale University, author of Poverty and Medical Care 

"After reading More Revealed, I now understand why AA members are among the most disoriented, desperate and lost callers I have handled." 
-- Ron W., Suicide Hotline Counselor 

"Those who read this book could die." 
-- Thomas F., twelve stepper who found this book too frightening to read 

"This book should be required reading for anyone who wants to be a therapist." 
-- Erma Epple, MA 

"It opened my eyes..." 
-- Bonnie Guerra 

"After reading this book I am more convinced that I must trust my own intuition more than anything else and march to the beat of my own drummer." 
-- Carlos Grado, social worker

horror cover gif

courtesy of:see sharp logo 
Twelve Step Horror Stories: True Tales of Misery, Betrayal and Abuse in NA, AA
and 12-Step Treatment
edited Rebecca Fransway, Ed. 
Read the book

“Those in this book are incredibly brave. Instead of sinking into a hole (‘jails, institutions, or death’) after rejecting AA, as AA told them they would, they've stood on their own two feet and have dared challenge a sacrosanct American icon.”— Stanton Peele, Author of Love and Addiction, Diseasing of America, Resisting 12-Step Coercion 

“Through this book, Rebecca Fransway is doing a great service to those who are considering joining or are being forced into the step groups; this collection of stories will reveal to them that ‘the loving hand of AA’ is often quite different from its wall-poster image.“The gift that Rebecca and the scores of personal accounts in this book offer is the knowledge that, no, you are not crazy; no, you are not alone; and yes, there is life after leaving the step groups.”— Ken Ragge, Author of The Real AA 

“12-Step Horror Stories graphically reveals America's most under-reported scandal — that 12-step groups and 12-step treatment are usually ineffective and all too often are actively harmful.”—Charles Bufe, Author of Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult or Cure?

horror cover gif

courtesy of:see sharp logo 
Resisting 12-Twelve Step Coercion: How to Fight Forced Participitation in AA, NA,
or 12-Step Treatment
by Stanton Peele and Charles Bufe with Archie Brodsky 
Read the Book

from the cover:Every year 1,000,000 Americans are coerced into Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, and 12-step treatment.Many of these people are neither alcoholics or drug addicts. Even for those who do abuse alcohol or drugs, coerced treatment does little good, and often amounts to little more than religious indoctrination.Coerced 12-step participation has, however, been successfully challenged several times in recent years in appeal-level courts on constitutional grounds (as a violation of the First Amendment's “Establishment Clause”). But the Supreme Court has yet to rule on the issue, and even in parts of the country where courts have ruled against it, 12-step coercion continues on a massive scale.If you, a loved one, or a client are being forced to participate in a 12-step group or 12-step treatment, this book will give you the information you need to challenge that forced participation — to resist 12-step coercion.

Saints Run Mad 
by Marjorie Harrison 
Read the Book

First published in 1934, "Saints Run Mad" is a cricism of the Oxford Group written by an Episcopal Church lady that reads very well as a criticism of the 12-Step groups of today. While "Frank" (Frank Buchman) is gone and not a word is said any more of the Absolutes, the madness carries on today. Written from a decidedly Christian perspective, it exposes the arrogance, hypocracy, and harm done, not only of 70 years ago but in AA and the other Step groups today. You hardly need be Christian to appreciate her honesty, candor and wit. But if you are, even better.— Ken Ragge, Author of More Revealed aka The Real AA

Soul Surgery 
by H. A. Walter 
Read the Book

In the 1920s and 30s, a new convert to the Oxford Group could buy this do-it-yourself manual for a few pennies and immediately set to work winning new converts. Supposedly a Christian document, the essence of the book has nothing to do with Christianity but with Buchmanism and the details of their "scientific" program of "soul surgery" or cult indoctrination techniques. The basic fundamental "scientific" principles are greatly refined and still used in modern-day Step groups.— Ken Ragge, Author of More Revealed aka The Real AA

What is the Oxford Group? 
by The Layman With the Notebook 
Read the book in .pdf format

Another book written in the early thirties plainly shows where much of A.A. came from a few years before modern-day A.A.'s claim A.A. began. In the first few words, one will see A.A.'s "the spiritual principle of Anonymity" before there was an A.A. (the book was written anonymously) and a description of the Oxford Group not much different from the way modern-day A.A. describes itself.



The intent of this site is to publicly address some very serious issues which concern the well known program of Alcoholics Anonymous. At first glance, this popular abstinence program appears to save countless lives, but upon closer examination we find that a notable amount of individuals suffer further as a result of AA thought reform. Many see AA as their last hope -- when they fail to find answers in the program which really work, some give up, drink fatally and die. (We believe that in some of these cases, the indoctrinated belief of powerlesness is acting as a lethal self-fulfilling prophecy) These deaths are then attributed to the "disease" of alcoholism and the lost member is seen as not having "worked the program". We do not agree with this viewpoint! The contributors to this site have found that AA has a dark side which is rarely discussed in meetings and is discussed only in a limited capacity in print. This is an attempt to voice this much needed alternate point of view. Additionally, we hope to provide an open forum for discussion where questioning and critiquing is encouraged, so that those individuals who do choose AA can be better consumers. Lastly, for those creative thinkers who are spinning their wheels in a 12 step program, we hope to provide long-overdue information which encourages growth outside of AA.

Meditation of the Month -- October
I tried for years to live according to everyone else's morality.
I tried to live like everyone else, to be like everyone else.
I said the right things even when I felt and thought quite differently.
And the result is a catastrophe.
-Albert Camus

Twelve Step Free Zone 

"12-Step-Free Zone: the place to be out of step"

What 12-Step-Free Is

12SF is a discussion group for those who reject 12-step ideology or are seriously questioning it. Members are those who have left step groups, who are still attending but are uncomfortable and considering leaving, who have loved ones caught up in steppism, who are professionals in the fields of addiction, law enforcement, etc., or who simply have an interest in discussing and debunking 12-steppism. We talk about how steppism has harmed people (or how it hinders growth), and we debunk the superstitious and unscientific beliefs of the 12-step movement. We also talk about political issues related to "addiction" and "recovery", including court cases which have declared 12-steppism to be a religion.


You will see this abbreviation used frequently by listmembers. It is a generic term for all of the hundreds of Step groups, AA, NA, OA, GA, Al-Anon, Gam-Anon, ACoA, etc.


Subscribe to 12-step-free
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12-Step Coercion Watch is a discussion list for those concerned about the violations of religious liberty that are occurring throughout the world where people are being coerced into the 12-Step programs of Alcoholics Anonymous and its many offshoots such as Narcotics Anonymous. In the United States alone more than a million people each year are forced into these programs by courts, licensing boards, and government employers.

Two federal circuit courts (Second and Seventh Circuits) and two state supreme courts (Tennessee and New York) have ruled this practice to be in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, yet the coercion continues throughout the country and also in other countries.

The discussions will focus on planning and initiating organizational efforts to end 12-Step coercion worldwide. The primary focus will be, but not be limited to, legal challenges in the courts. This may include, but not be limited to, advising those now being coerced that this coercion is unconstitutional, encouraging them to file suit, and finding legal assistance for them.

We encourage lawyers and laypersons alike to participate in this group and hope that a Supreme Court decision will eventually lead to the end of 12-step coercion in the U.S. We also would like to hear from those from other countries where coercion exists so together we can work to end 12-step coercion worldwide once and for all.

Nursesforrecoveryfreedom · Nurses for Recovery Freedom

Welcome to the Nurses for Recovery Freedom site. This site was created as an informational site for any nurse mandated to the 12 step culture for licensure preservation. The site is to keep us informed of legal issues regarding our constitutional rights in regards to recovery treatment. For those with chemical dependency issues, there are few alternatives and mandated programs, have been found to be illegal in certain courts. Although this can be an extremely confusing, overwhelming and intimidating time, much can be gained through education and understanding of the systems that control our profession. We do have choices, but must voice our opposition to the abuse of our consitutional rights, regardless of our profession or situation.

Escape From The Cult of AA

Title: Escape_From_The_Cult_of_A_A (EFTCoaa)


EFTCoaa is a group committed to deprogramming from AA's cult doctrines. It is not our business nor is it our mission to determine for our members how they should handle alcohol in their personal lives. We tend to be more supportive of those who have maintained abstinence, as most who come here do not wish to drink. However they DO wish to be free of AA Stepism. What IS our mission is to help individuals, who have been harmed by AA and see it as a cult, to deprogram themselves from it's destructive thinking. The wounds that cults leave behind are deep and lasting, and it is our hope that EFTCoaa will be a place to demystify and de-sanctify 12 step rhetoric that stays in the thought processes long after a person has left the AA cult. We promote personal empowerment rather than powerlessness; freethinking rather than rigid non-thinking obedience; choice rather than fear and terrorizing; and freedom to live one's life as one sees fit. There are 2 things we do not tolerate and will ban members for: proselytizing for AA and abusive personal attacks on members. This place is to be a safe haven for many minds with many ideas. The whole point is to regain our individuality. We are not professionals. We encourage those who need medical attention to seek it, and maintain links to other groups for support of abstinence such as Rational Recovery, S.O.S., SMART etc.

1. Do you feel that A.A. is NOT the only road to Sobriety?
2. Do you take issue with being chided for questioning the “Program”?
3. Are you troubled by AA's Religious foundation?
4. Have you been greatly harmed by AA?
5. Do you ever wonder if AA is a cult?
6. Do you question being told that you cannot be angry?
7. Have you been forced to admit powerlessness over your life in a way that empowers other members while it diminishes you?

If you answered yes to two or more of these questions, EFTCoaa just might be a YAHOO group for you.



This site is for people who were desperately seeking recovery from addiction, or was coerced by the "powers that be" to join what was thought to be a group that would help them find freedom from  addiction, and instead found themselves caught up in a cult that they could not easily walk away from without repercussions. 
Many people view 12-step organizations as harmless support groups designed to help people overcome various addictions and regain their lives, however, for many of us this view was far from the reality of what 12-step groups really are! Many of us have awakened after years of brainwashing to find that we had not regained our lives, but had instead lost our individuality and the freedom to think for ourselves. Many of us have lost much more, some have lost their families and suffer emotionally from their experiences inside these "harmless support groups," others have committed suicide because they could not live up to the expectations of sponsors or other group members. This site is dedicated to those who cannot tell their stories. It is our hope that this discussion list will provide some insight into how cults operate,  how you can discern whether or not you are in a recovery cult, and how others have found their freedom from the step religion and reclaimed their lives.



aabugsusbecause · aa bugs us because


aabugsusbecause · aa bugs us because

AA bugs us for many legitimate reasons!
(We're not to be confused with that flaming 12-stepper group called "aabugsmebecause," which is a misnomer since nothing about AA really bugs them.)
Feel free to rant about AA here - steppers, enter at your own risk!

without_aa ·

sober _without_ alcoholics_anonymus


Yes, you can stay sober without AA. We are people who have been burned by AA and we discuss things we believe are wrong within AA. If you are convinced of the AA doctrine that you cannot be sober without AA, then this is probably not a group you should join. Our desire is to help you see what AA really is and we are not counselors or trained professionals. This list is not meant to replace professional therapy.




A Gallery of Visual Aids for the Sane

The Step-Think Ticker
Your Brain on AA
©2003 Partnership for a Twelve Step-Free America®

As Bill Sees It

Alcoholics Anonymous: Of Course It's a Cult!
by Jack Trimpey

The Twelve Step Cult
by Mitch Bailey

The Semantics of the Twelve Step Neurosis: Surrender, Disease, Denial and other dysfunctional 12-step pathways to personal dis-empowerment and cult dependency by Clifton W. Kirton (Dr.X-ray) http://www.aadeprogramming.org/reclaim/semantics.html

Jeffrey A. Schaler, Ph.D.

Jeffrey A. Schaler, Ph.D.

Psychological characteristics of cult membership are discussed. The cult nature of Alcoholics Anonymous and disease model of addiction ideology is examined. Patterns of response by individuals who believe strongly in the disease model of addiction when their ideology is challenged are analyzed.

The Twelve Step Cult
by Mitch Bailey
We live in a society seemingly overwhelmed with addictions to various chemicals. An habitual user of drugs/alcohol is usually encouraged to seek "treatment" within the format of a program offering 12 Steps to sober living. Most heralded is Alcoholics Anonymous (AA).

We live in a society seemingly overwhelmed with addictions to various chemicals. An habitual user of drugs/alcohol is usually encouraged to seek "treatment" within the format of a program offering 12 Steps to sober living. Most heralded is Alcoholics Anonymous (AA).

Anonymity Anonymous

How to Become a Cult Leader

Help and support for people with support group dependency problems (or stepper interferance problems)

Counseling for Ex-Members

Overcoming Your Alcohol, Drug & Recovery Habits: An Empowering Alternative to AA and 12-Step Treatment

Drink advice service confronts sex abuse

AA acts on rising reports of attacks by volunteers

Gerard Seenan
Wednesday July 5, 2000

Vulnerable alcoholics seeking help for their addiction are being subjected to sexual and other abuse at the hands of long-serving volunteers from the world's largest alcohol support group.

A Message to the Media

Cited: 47 Duke L. J. 785
[*pg 785]


A. The Religious Aspects of Alcoholics Anonymous
B. Alcoholics Anonymous and the Constitutional Definition of Religion
C. Establishment Clause Tests

A. Warner v. Orange County Department of Probation
B. O'Connor v. California
C. Incidental Benefits to AA in the Probation Context

A. Constitutional Rights of Inmates
B. Griffin v. Coughlin
C. Kerr v. Farrey
D. Jones v. Smid
E. Alcoholics Anonymous, Turner, and the Establishment Clause

A. The Establishment Clause and Coercion
B. The Public and Government Funding of Religiously-Oriented Counseling

A. Right-Privilege Distinction
B. The Doctrine of Unconstitutional Conditions





Hi, I am Michael,
For fifty years I have been in contact with spiritual movements or read up on them. I have been interested particularly in their influence on its members, who I have followed now for a considerable number of years all over the world. I have been struck by the fact that developments within such groups always seem to follow a similar pattern. When people unite for a special purpose a field of tension seems to arise based on unleashed subconscious drives.
Please allow me to share with you some of my observations.





Approximate Reading Time:
30 Minutes

Note: This article is primarily about the Witnesses, but many points are applicable when you discuss emotionally charged matters with people other than Witnesses



Forced AA in the US Military is Unconstitutional

aaa comix


Alcoholics Anonymous

God's Sword of Truth - The Word

Alcoholics Anonymous

By The Holy Spirit's Disciple, Raymond Laginess


We need more links



"Danger Thin Ice"

Real Life Experiences in Dangers Waters.


Some may find this information disturbing or think of it as bashing, a group but "The Truth Is The Truth" and we have every right to share our Life Experiences because it might help the next person, by presenting information that is normally suppressed.

Why is this information suppressed and why is necessary to set up a web site to bring information that should be freely given to us from our free press and free media?

Where is our Free Press??

Where is our Free Media??

The #1 web site you should visit "Agent Orange" -- https://www.orange-papers.info/menu1.html

Danger Thin Ice

Why do people bash Alcoholics Anonymous?

True Stories of Struggles

AA articles

AA Cult Watch or Warning Groups & Web Sites

Ray Smith thoughts on Agnostics in AA


What is your opinion or /impression of Alcoholics Anonymous?


John McCready's Anti-Coercion 12 Steps

AA isn't the last stop on the train

AA Guidelines for Cooperating with Court, D.W.I. and Similar Programs

 AA Links 

12 Steps to Destruction: Codependency/Recovery Heresies

Should I Bash Alcoholics Anonymous 

Information From Other Web Sites

More Revealed web books

Important Court Cases - More Revealed web